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News, views and discussions on Lyle Hess Yachts, focussed primarily on the Bristol Channel Cutter
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Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: IDUNA (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2010 02:22PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

I just checked Davey's printed catalog. My mistake about Davey manufacturing seacocks. Sparten Marine lists seacocks in their online catalog.

[spartanmarine.com]

The only other company I know that make traditional seacocks is Blakes in England.

[www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk]

The thru-hull is built into the Blake seacock body. Although the valve is vertical instead of horizontal, it is still a plug valve.

Finding well made traditional marine hardware is becoming more difficult. Toplich in German is an excellent marine chandler for tradition marine supplies. Unfortunately, their website is in German. I believe you can still order a catalog from Toplich. The cartoons in the catalog are funny.

[www.toplicht.de]

Cheers,

Rod

Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: IDUNA (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2010 02:25PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Toplich Catalog order form

[www.toplicht.de]

Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: milhan (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2010 02:40PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Hi,
CERYAN (formerly MIMI) is on hard. I am told that all the seacocks are OK but must be serviced. They guess that they haven't been used for a long, long time.
No need to replace them.
Meantime the condition of the 4/5 weeks old brand new zinc surprised me to say the least...

Mehmet

Attachments: CERYAN_ON_HARD_800.jpg (384kB)   CERYAN_ZINC_1_800.jpg (387kB)   CERYAN_ZINC_2_800.jpg (450kB)  
Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: svshaula (IP Logged)
Date: October 23, 2010 04:24AM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Mehmet,
I don't think you have to worry about the strength of either Apollo or Groco ball valves--as I said, we have both WC tapered plug and Apollo ball valve seacocks on Shaula, and they are both very strong and would no doubt pass the 500 lb test. Plastic ball valve seacocks made some years ago (and still in use?) had a problem with handles (or stems?) breaking off, especially after a period of disuse, but I think they have been redesigned and are now more rugged. You don't need to worry about of Apollo or Groco ball valve handles failing--they are very rugged. I don't know how long a good ball valve seacock can be expected to last. We've had ours for about 5 yrs. I haven't heard that ball valves are short-lived, and they seem to be the standard on new boats of every level of quality.

I'm glad to see that some seacock tradtionalists have joined the thread. As with just about everything having to do with boats, there's pro's and con's to just about every decision. We'll all be interested to hear what you decide and how it all comes out.
Dan BCC 59

Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: ross8350 (IP Logged)
Date: October 23, 2010 08:56AM
Category: Heads and plumbing

defender.com/ and [www.jamestowndistributors.com] are alternate sources for groco bronze ball valves.

jo anne ross
s/v little pearl
falmouth cutter 26-7

Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: IDUNA (IP Logged)
Date: October 23, 2010 01:01PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Mehmet:

You may want to telephone Patrick at Groco about servicing the seacocks. As I stated before, I believe the rubber plug Groco seacock is the finest seacock made. We installed new Groco seacocks in our former boat, African Moon, when we rebuilt her. Lynn and Larry Pardey installed them in their boat.

Rod
BCC IDUNA


Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: milhan (IP Logged)
Date: November 11, 2010 08:10PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Hi,
(Correct thread)
I got all my sea-cocks serviced. When I got the bill I got sea shocked. It was for $1700. I was charged $440 for hauling, $150 for installation of the rope cutter to the prop shaft and $90 for checking the shaft packing. Painting the prop was also included. About thousand dollars for labor.
Live and learn. Actually I could have done all of these (may be not the rope cutter) by myself.
I also hired the chief mechanic of the yard for 2 hours. Since he has worked on the boat for so many years it was pleasure listening to him. I took a lot of notes too. I don't know how much his bill will be... I think hourly rate is $90. He also strongly suggested electrical upgrade. Estimated cost is between $3000-$4000. However I have a feeling that they are being pressured by the yard owner to create projects for winter months.. I declined.
What really made me mad was if I haven't panicked I could have waited for winter when I was planning to get the boat out.
Now I don't want to..
Since I wasn't there I have no idea what they have replaced.. But all the seacocks are working now.. We are waiting for handles.
If the owner was present during the survey he could give me all the information I needed it. Then I wouldn't have to spent all this money.

PAN PAN PAN
Mr. Lynn do you hear me?
Over and out...


Re: [BCC Forum Post] milhan: Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: IDUNA (IP Logged)
Date: November 11, 2010 08:45PM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Let's see, $1,000 labor at $90 an hour, hum, 11.1 hours.

We could not afford a boat if we did not do all our own boat work.
Once and awhile, I let the yard do something that costs less than
$200. I call it goodwill money.

Sorry that you feel screwed. This forum is here to help, use it.

IDUNA

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 3:10 PM, BCC Forums <bccforums@samlmorse.com> wrote:


Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: svshaula (IP Logged)
Date: November 12, 2010 03:33AM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Ahoy Mehmet,
Welcome to boat-ownership for the non-wealthy! Most of us do the maintenance on our boats for 2 reasons. The main one is that we don't want to pay $90/hr labor costs for work that we can do ourselves. The other is that we need to understand the job--if we don't, we won't even know if the hired help did the job right until it's too late! So, we eventually get it figured out, and do the job the way it should be done, and sleep better.

Again, what did the yard do about the head outlet Groco with the broken-off handle? Did they install a new seacock? Maybe they found a handle for you in their discard stash? What did they do about the head intake WC seacock that was leaking? New bolts? New pad? Lapping? Does "servicing" mean that they disassembled the 5 WC seacocks and greased them up? Was lapping needed on any of them? It usually takes me about .5-1.0 hours per WC seacock, but that doesn't include lapping to grind out any pitting that results in 'hour-glassing'. Does 'checking the shaft packing' mean that they replaced the packing in the stern gland? If so, that could also take around an hour. If they replaced your head inlet seacock, the pad, or the bolts, that would be a 2-3 plus hr job for me (I had to remove the thru-hull before I could access the bolts).

I'm looking forward to some new photos! If you want to talk about rewiring the boat, let's start a new thread.
Regards, Dan

PS The difference in price between your boat, and a new one, is what the owner didn't tell you about (and what the surveyor didn't write down). Seacocks, engine, rigging, sails, etc., etc.!







Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/16/10 11:39PM by svshaula.

Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: milhan (IP Logged)
Date: November 16, 2010 01:13AM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Hi,
As I have said they "serviced" it. I was not there. I didn't see what they did. The only think I know is that they work. I can open and close them.
Please don't get the impression that I don't like to dirty my hands. This was an exception and partly due to miscommunication between me and myself.
Well.. Next time I am going to replace them with new ones probably in Bora Bora (If Ron is still there)
Meantime I went sailing Sunday with a friend. He is more experienced than I am. He thought my jib's clew was too high.
I want to send some pix and discuss it with you. However should this be a new subject? Spar and rigging?

Mehmet
CERYAN

Ps. As you will see from the attached web bookmarks I was following your web sites for a long a very longg time....


Attachments: BCC_BUDDIES.jpg (268kB)  
Re: Thru-Hull fittings
Posted by: svshaula (IP Logged)
Date: November 16, 2010 03:28AM
Category: Heads and plumbing

Mehmet,
Please tell us what the yard did with your Groco seacock. Were they able to find a "wingbolt" (that had broken off)? Have you asked them what "servicing" means? Greasing of course, but was there pitting on the tapered plugs? Did they do any lapping? You deserve answers. Talk to the folks that actually did the work. Being able to open and close the seacocks is essential, but does the head intake seacock still leak?

You say "Next time I am going to replace them with new ones probably in Bora Bora (If Ron is still there)." I don't understand. Who is Ron? Bora Bora?? There was no haulout there in 1995. You can expect very high prices for just about everything in F. Polynesia (except maybe bagettes).

Yes, you should start a new thread if you want to discuss a different topic (in the 'sails and canvas' category).
Dan

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